Feature

The F Word

Monday Aug 17, 2009 – By Kia Miakka Wood

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When was the last time you called yourself the F-word?

Freak? Fornicator?

No – Feminist.

Feminist is not something that you’ll hear a lot of black women call themselves. We can be divas, bossy, and even bitches, but to be a feminist in the black community gets you stereotyped as a man-hating bitter lesbian. Oh, and a sell out too.

178-1 This isn’t to say black feminism doesn’t exist. Joan Morgan’s seminal 1999 book When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost sought to define a brand of feminism that addressed the complexities of being a black woman in the hip-hop generation. One could even argue that Beyoncé may be one of the most prominent black feminists of our generation, with empowering lyrics and a larger than life attitude.

But ten years after Chickenheads hit the stands you still can’t convince Beyoncé to call herself a feminist, hip-hop or otherwise.

So where are my sistas who aren’t afraid to embrace the dreaded f-word?

Black women have always struggled with race vs. gender. If we have to pick sides the general belief is race, then gender. During the 1960’s organizations like the Black Panthers marginalized women’s involvement and focused goals on the black man. On the flip side the women’s liberation movement subjugated black women to the “little sister” role, giving them little input when it came to forming the causes of the movement.

In the 70’s the National Black Feminist Organization was formed, yet that organization stalled nearly ten years later for the same reason feminism struggles in the black community – lack of support and an inability to identify key issues and goals. Striking the balance between race and gender is a difficult task, and it becomes that much more difficult when gender is the elephant in the room no one really wants to address. Black folks will talk about racism until their throats bleed, but bring up sexism and gender equality and the conversation will stall.

Divestment is for some black feminist the answer to the community’s vigilant silence towards gender issues. The belief of divestment, as a generalization, is that black women need to do what is best for the individual first. “In an increasingly global world,” says black feminist and author Karyn Folan, “black women must free themselves from the blackiverse and the idea that black women are responsible for the entire black community– at the expensive of their own health and happiness.” Often this can manifest itself through the breaking cultural norms, like marrying a black man, or living in a black community that may be unsafe instead putting your safety and value as a priority.

It’s a seemingly controversial topic, but conceptually divestment isn’t new to the black community. Didn’t George and Weezy divest when they moved on up to the east side? Every hood rapper divests the second he gets that 1st check and trades up the project flat for a McMansion in the ‘burbs. And don’t even start with pro-athletes and their ethnically ambiguous romantic pursuits. Divestment as a whole isn’t a completely unique concept – this is just the first time a group of black feminist were bold enough to not only label it, but also encourage others to join their movement.

Blogs like blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com and muslimbushido.blogspot.com are part of a grassroots movement for black women to divest.

“Divesting means we stop thinking ‘black’ first and ask ourselves what we really want– and what else is out there for us beyond all black constructs,” Folan says. “It allows us to take care of ourselves FIRST– our health, our wealth, our minds, bodies and souls. Black women who divest can become healthier people.”

A mental and physical departure from the black community may not be for everyone, but putting yourself first should be. The great thing about divestment is that it’s an open-ended feminist concept – do what makes YOU comfortable. Says Folan, “divesters choose to reach beyond all black constructs and create their own identities that include some concept of ‘blackness’ but aren’t limited to it.” Don’t feel that just because you’re black means your race matters more than your gender. Forget the stereotypes, labels, and taboos – you don’t have to call yourself a feminist to be a feminist.

softjunebreeze says:

August 17, 2009 at 3:58 am

Suggested Reading:
“Words of Fire: An Anthology of African-American Feminist Thought” by Beverly Guy-Sheftall

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The F Word | Clutch Magazine: The Digital Magazine for the Young … - Roca News says:

August 17, 2009 at 7:37 am

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Laquita Thomas-Banks says:

August 17, 2009 at 12:27 pm

Great article.

keke says:

August 17, 2009 at 5:39 pm

Dang, you lost me at Beyonce.

JoeBmore says:

August 17, 2009 at 6:00 pm

Big Shock. I think Divestment is a joke.

I am not trying to make light of any issue Black women are facing today. But it seems there is a grassroot community that makes it seem as the only solution to every single problem the Black women will ever face in the universe.

1. Leave Black men run to white men.
2. Forgot about the Black Community, and only see the world thru Eurocentric eyes.

As if Whites lives are perfect. Unbelievable. Maybe I am the only true Black feminist. I actually believe in personal accountability for women. I know its a rare concept, but running to another man is not going solve your issues.

You want to improve the lives for Black women. Start at home. Yes. With your own family. Give that a try.

Clnmike says:

August 17, 2009 at 7:18 pm

I see, so the solution is to move away from the black community because….

1- There are no safe black communities.

2- Other communities are safer and more accepting of your race and gender.

3- Domestic violence, sexism, and general crime against women are non-existant in other communities.

Well that sounds like a winner, I dont no whats taking you women so long to free yourselves.

Get the hell on already.

August 17, 2009 at 7:22 pm

But I do think it should be noted that white feminist did not divest from their “communities” they fought to make it better. But than again not everyone has the stomach for a good fight.

Mahogany Misfit says:

August 17, 2009 at 9:00 pm

I definitely identify as a Black feminist so it’s nice to see Clutch using the ‘F’ Word since so many websites and magazines geared toward Black women won’t.

Another thing they won’t do- acknowledge how patriarchy harms us ALL and encourage us to fight against it. It would be fantabulous if Clutch would do something geared toward that next…

Now, as far as “divestment from the Black community” goes, first I need an explanation as to what the hell this mythical “Black community” is.

What does that even mean??? “Black community”?

It suggests we are all of one mindset and have some sort of a union…I never hear this term bandied about for any ethnicity BUT ours.

Let’s see, I have a Black family and mostly Black friends but I live in Scottsdale. There are no Black neighborhoods here. I am the only Black woman at my job. I have seen MAYBE three Black people in my immediate neighbrohood.

How exactly am I part of this Black community in the first place?

Is the only criteria being born Black???

And how does one “divest” from something which is pretty much non-existent for so many of us?

Maybe I’m focusing on the “Black aommunity” thing too much but this term is so overused and vague…it’s starting to get on my nerves.

August 17, 2009 at 9:02 pm

BTW- “When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost” is a stellar book.

I also suggest ANYTHING by bell hooks…my Black feminist icon.

I luv her.

August 17, 2009 at 11:07 pm

Mahogany – Your Black community. Is every single Black man and Black woman that scarified in your family. That allowed you to be the only Black person in Scottsdale.

Do you think when Indian Engineers come to America for work, and they are the only Indians at their job. Do you think for one second they don’t believe they are part of the Indian Community. You women need to get real.

Take some pride in yourself, and your family. For the love of Christ.

Clnmike is right. White feminist fought to make the White Family Better. Black feminist are fighting to be part of the White family.

Glennisha Morgan says:

August 18, 2009 at 2:32 am

Great piece! I’m really glad to see someone write about this! I’m a proud Black feminist!

August 18, 2009 at 2:54 am

JoeBmore- Please don’t berate me like you know anything about me or my life story.

Take pride in myself and my family…hahahaha. Surely you jest! You have a great deal of assumptions going for you there…but seemingly not much else.

Nothing in my comment would suggest that I am fighting to be a part of any “White family”, or that I don’t take pride in my own heritage or family, so you must be speaking of someone other than me.

A person’s limited family unit does not fully encompass or represent an entire community of diverse people. So, if that’s your idea of what the “Black community” is, (along with your baseless assumptions and unsolictied attacks on strangers via the internet), I’ll hold out for more substantive opinions. Thanks!

August 18, 2009 at 4:33 am

To add to that JoeBmore, you make superficial reference to being a “black feminist” but don’t seem to be doing anything other than condeming women in your comments.

In the post on singlehood and marriage you saw fit to contribute nothing of substance other than to make a lame, sexist joke about how women are “impossible to please”, and you are now making statements like “you women need to get real”.

“You women”??? Sorta reminds me of how white people refer to us as “you Blacks”. The accusatory tone is one of utter disgust and complete dismissal. It’s certainly not something an advocate would say.

So, it seems to me that your rhetoric portrays you as anything BUT a feminist or even an advocate of feminism (or women) for that matter.

And on another note, I am certainly not going to be shamed by some stranger about my loyalty to my family or the fact that I am in the minority at work, and in my neighborhood.

I’m still surprised (although I really shouldn’t be at this point) when I see conversations among Black people reduced to these tactics of whether or not one is “Black enough” or loyal enough to this alleged “Black community”. A community that is invisible to the naked eye for those who are the minority in cities like Scottsdale, and possibly a figment of our imaginations altogether as we don’t seem to have an effective or identifiable support network where we are all welcomed.

If there was any event in which I could somehow magically forget about the fact that I am Black, some White person would be happy to come along and remind me! I don’t need to take a litmus test from other Black folks.

This entire conversation is indicative of why many don’t have a sense of this “Black community” of which everyone speaks. Instead of engaging in thoughtful communication and giving plausible answers and ideas to questions and concerns, we attack and blame each other for a percived lack of Blackness and loyalty to “the community”. We assert that they must lack racial pride! We suggest that they are CLEARLY trying to be any race but Black!

It’s reminiscent of the “witch hunt” days and the McCartyism era actually. Who can we pinpoint (while having no evidence whatsofu*king ever) as a traitor and thus not “one of us”??

Basic respect, patience, and the genuine desire to understand and comprehend, are NOT present in a lot of our interactions.

You are currently embodying that JoeBmore, great job!

Hmph, how could anyone ever conceive of “divesting” from such a toxic, hateful environment?!

August 18, 2009 at 12:38 pm

1. “Now, as far as “divestment from the Black community” goes, first I need an explanation as to what the hell this mythical “Black community” is.
What does that even mean??? “Black community”?”

2. “A person’s limited family unit does not fully encompass or represent an entire community of diverse people. ”

So apparently you have your own beliefs about what is or isn’t a community. So why bother asking the question?

————————————————

” this alleged “Black community”. A community that is invisible to the naked eye for those who are the minority in cities like Scottsdale, and possibly a figment of our imaginations altogether as we don’t seem to have an effective or identifiable support network where we are all welcomed.”

I see you completely missed the point I was making about Indians that come to this country Alone. Do they talk about “divestment”. No. Why because they have pride in their culture. These people don’t necessarily have a tangible support network either.

——————————-

“Basic respect, patience, and the genuine desire to understand and comprehend, are NOT present in a lot of our interactions.”

I will agree with that and it goes in both directions.

August 18, 2009 at 2:57 pm

I gave the post another try; I just looked past the beyonce reference. I have been reading a little bit about the divestment movement and while I am not completely on board with everything, I can agree with some of their principles.

First, I agree with Misfit, there is not this one “black community”. We are not a monolith, we are a diverse group of people with varying ideas, wants, needs. Yet, the idea of the black community has at times been used as propaganda to box black women in. What I mean is that black women are encouraged to look out for everyone else but themselves for the “good of the community”. Carry the load, do all of the work, you have to marry a black man, and have a strong black family unit….blah blah blah.

I don’t think that there is anything wrong with making choices and decisions that benefit you as an individual. How can you truly help other people if you do not take care of yourself? Why is it a “must” to marry a black man? Believe me, there is nothing wrong with marrying black men but when that ideal is forced on us, when we limit our options, we limit our definition of happiness and that is disastrous.

It is problematic when we limit ourselves to certain relationships, certain communities of residence, certain jobs because it appears that we are serving the interests of the “black community”. I think we can make good decisions for ourselves and bring people along who are ready to make better choices, but I don’t believe in limiting ourselves because it appears to be in the best interests of the community.

August 18, 2009 at 3:32 pm

But why is the answer always. Date out.
As if that is the number one issue for Black women. I don’t know. You tell me.

Is dating and getting married the number one issue for Black women?

August 18, 2009 at 4:06 pm

@ JoeBmore

No, of course I don’t think that the number one issue for black women is dating and getting married. I wholeheartedly reject that notion.

Unfortunately, there is a patriarchal system at play that enforces that ideal on us. Steve Harvey and Tyler Perry are adding fuel to that argument. Also, dating and relationships were not the only issues that I addressed in my comment.

Certainly dating out is not “thee” answer. Expanding your options is the answer. Not limiting yourself to certain jobs, not limiting yourself to certain neighborhoods, certain friends, and not limiting our pool of men.

Expansion is the key….and just because a black woman decides to expand does not mean that we are rejecting black people. It just means that we are not bound by certain options due to the color of our skin.

Melissa says:

August 18, 2009 at 5:04 pm

Beyonce? Sorry, but I just don’t see it too blinded by the endless booty shakes.

joeBmore says:

August 18, 2009 at 5:48 pm

Keke – You have to admit.

That you only see this message being sent to only Black women. You don’t find that odd? No other race of man or woman. Are told that they need to get away from their community or people besides Black women.

You can wrap it up anyway you want. But the central theme being sent out to Black women the last 5 years is date out. As if that is the only pertinent issue affect Black women directly.

I’m not buying it. Somebody is lying.

How is that the only message so-called feminist care about? What about Black women giving away their financial power in droves to Koreans. I have nothing against Koreans, but the Black Hair Care industry is a Billion dollar business, and Black women solely support that.

The constant talk about these high powered, highly educated Black women. Where are the Black Female Fortune 500 hundred companies? Isn’t that the kind of empowerment that is more important than worrying about who to date.

Its like Black women are under constant attack on their self esteem.

August 18, 2009 at 6:29 pm

JoeBMore- If I missed any “point” you made, it was probably due to the fact that you chose to attack me and make wildly inaccurate assertions about my life, rather than engage me in mature conversation.

Those tactics usually blur one’s point of view.

“So apparently you have your own beliefs about what is or isn’t a community. So why bother asking the question?”

Well JoeBMore, my asking the question was my way of soliciting other opinions. OF COURSE I have my own idea of what a community is. I didn’t realize I wasn’t allowed to solicit opinions from others after having formed one of my own.

Personally, I think the term “community” is subjective to MOST people, which is why I wanted viewpoints on what exactly it means to others.

If you were so interested in having a respectful dialog, you wouldn’t have hurled insults at me right out of the gate when you don’t know me from Adam.

You can agree with my sentiment about patience and respectful communication all you want NOW, but the fact remains that you were the one who initiated the negative tone and crazy assumptions. That weakens the rest of what you have to say on this topic for me.

KeKe- Thank you for articulating that further for me…that is exactly what I was trying to say regarding the term “Black community”.

Also, is it just me or do Black women seem to receive a whole helluva a lot of flak for this “dating out” business, when in actuality we marry outside of our race in MUCH smaller numbers than Black men do (according to Census data).

I know there are a lot of women run blogs popping up lately encouraging women to do this, but the fact remains that even with all of this “encouragement”, we STILL do it MUCH less than our male counterparts. Yet we seem to be condemned over it on a much larger scale.

Even after growing up in predominately white neighborhoods all my life, going to White schools, etc. I have still YET to date a man who didn’t come in some shade of brown…..

Is this really an “epidemic” or are people projecting? And if people are simply projecting…do they condemn Black men for “dating out” as much as they do Black women?

August 18, 2009 at 7:31 pm

Mahogany – I apologize. See.

“I know there are a lot of women run blogs popping up lately encouraging women to do this, but the fact remains that even with all of this “encouragement”, we STILL do it MUCH less than our male counterparts. Yet we seem to be condemned over it on a much larger scale.”

In my personal opinion. Its because Black men basically do it without solicitation. It takes two to tango. You have a woman and a man that find each other attractive for whatever reason. Then they dated or hooked up. That is it. The was no agenda or movement needed for it.

The Blogs, Articles, Movies, etc. Which basically plead and beg Black women to date out. There is a perversion behind it which is unnatural. What is crazy about it the most is that men are supposed to chase women. So the only race of women in the world who actively promote and seek out men. Especially men of another race is Black women. That makes Black women look desperate. That is just my opinion.

But I never see the onus put on White men or other Non-Black men. Black women had to go to a seminar to look for White men. Why isn’t it the other way around? Does that help Black women or make them look beneath other men. The Elephant in the room is that more Black woman would date out. If more non-Black men would approach them. Why is that never discussed? Its always made to look as if Black women are at fault or the Black community is at fault from dating the great non-Black man. Its a joke.

August 19, 2009 at 12:47 pm

@ misfit,

thank you for your additional input. I totally agree with your statements.

@JoeBmore,

I am not exactly sure why you keep harping on the idea of black women dating outside their race. As I mentioned before, I don’t think that is the only principle of divestment. Plus women should be able to date whomever they want.

I am not sure what movies you are speaking of, I hardly see black women in lead roles let alone dating men outside of their race. I usually see black women relegated to the role of sassy black friend who saves the white women for total destruction, i.e. The Mammy.

As Misfit mentioned, black women are not marrying at alarming rates and when we do marry we still choose black men. So for all of the blogs and the “movement” to encourage black women to date outside the race, I’m not sure its working.

Finally, I view relationships and dating differently than you do. I don’t think that women have to wait around and let a man “pick” or “select” us. I believe that women can present a positive and open attitude that says “I am ready for a relationship” while still maintaining her dignity and respect.

lajoliefille says:

August 19, 2009 at 9:27 pm

Despite the ahem negativity, I’m loving this dialogue.

Although I don’t entirely agree with JoeBmore’s assertion, I think he’s making something of a valid point (but hell I could be wrong). His point being: why is it that black women (hell women in general) are expected to cater to the white male gaze. Its rooted in the racist notion that the the only opinion that really is of any value is a white dude’s. In our white supremacist patriarchy, the white man is king. So it does black women no favors to assume assuming that the only road to success of improvement is on the arm of Joe
Schmoe (no pun intended). It just substitutes one privilege for another.

But I think that Joe is missing the larger point. The point of divestment (at least as I understand it) is not about marrying a white men, hell its not about marriage at all. It about not controlling the sexual, economical, political and social agency of black women based on mythical percepts of the “black community.” No matter the society, western or otherwise, women have been told to submit themselves to larger power, their community, regardless of whether it is a boon or a bane to them. Divestment simple refutes this sentiment.

Candy says:

August 20, 2009 at 1:25 am

Good Article. We need to talk about this more as Black women. We really do.

August 20, 2009 at 11:30 am

lajoliefille – Thanks for your explanation.

I was in the believe that feminism was about woman’s rights, and/or equality. But what I have seen throughout the Blogshtere. That Divestment = Leaving One Master (Black Men) and running to another Master (White Men).

How exactly is that supposed to help Black Women? I hate that it seems that only Black men see this sometimes or are willing to speak about it. So it comes off as wrong or hateful.

But I am Glad that you see the point I was trying to make.

August 20, 2009 at 2:11 pm

Glad that you joined the discussion lajoliefille! Although I don’t really sense any negativity, just differences of opinion which is always healthy.

Once again, I am not understanding why this is centered around the idea of black women dating outside of their race. First lets be clear, when black women do get married, for the most part, we still marry black men. So there is not this huge swath of black women running into the arms of white men. As far as feminism and women’s rights; don’t women have the right to choose in all facets of their lives? Why is that such a bad thing? I don’t think women are lobbying for the acceptance of white men. I do think women are lobbying for partners who are willing to at least acknowledge our concerns and issues. I think that women would like to have male partners who are willing to address their concerns and those men can be found in black, white, latino circles. ONE of the ideas of divestment informs women that it is acceptable to look outside of your race if you have not found a suitable partner. Black women, just like black men can look outside their race to find a life long mates. Again, why is this a bad thing?

Again, the idea is about taking control of your personal well being and expansion and not feeling that you are beholden to a set of beliefs that have been passed down through generations to keep black women oppressed.

Divestment is not about running to another master it is about recognizing your personal power and agency as a woman. As I said before, I don’t agree with all divestment principles but I am all for women taking care of their health and well being. We need to be sure that we are in a good position mentally, emotionally, economically and there is nothing wrong with that.

August 20, 2009 at 7:13 pm

KeKe- You make some excellent points.

One thing I found interesting about the “Black Women Blow The Trumpet” Link is that the author, in many of her posts, speaks about the paranoia of Black men over the divestment issue because it really represents one more faction of people who aren’t showing blind loyalty to Black men. She asserts that they are a decreasing segment of the population (less than 5% now) with a decreasing amount of social capital. They are being outpaced by every other faction of society in the areas that increase one’s social capital (education, professional advancement, etc.) If they lose us, who do they have left? Us forging alliances with others sort of leaves them in the dust in a way, so it’s really no wonder some men are so up in arms about the notion of Black women dating out.

They can give a “dating out” pass to other Black men because they feel it’s okay for THEM to have a multitude of options, but there still seems to be an ownership mentality that causes them to feel we should be beholden to them as a group.

I honestly don’t think it has to do with our perceived dignity or about us “chasing white men” and somehow demeaning ourselves. They can’t cloak it as “bringing it to our attention out of concern” all they want. You can tell when speaking to people of this mentality, who harp relentlessly on this issue, that it’s not the welfare or happiness of Black women that these men are so concerned about.

The rhetoric takes on a tone of pathetic desperation after a while…as you can see from this very thread.

August 21, 2009 at 11:04 am

Mah – You come back with Black men bashing after I apologized. You see. You can’t win for trying.

Lisa Vasquez is a Black man hater. She is no different then the other IR hate Black men blogs.

————————————–

“paranoia of Black men over the divestment issue because it really represents one more faction of people who aren’t showing blind loyalty to Black men. She asserts that they are a decreasing segment of the population (less than 5% now) with a decreasing amount of social capital. They are being outpaced by every other faction of society in the areas that increase one’s social capital (education, professional advancement, etc.) If they lose us, who do they have left? Us forging alliances with others sort of leaves them in the dust in a way, so it’s really no wonder some men are so up in arms about the notion of Black women dating out.”

This is completely her opinion. Black men on Avg. in America outearn Black men. That is not an opinion but a fact. You can look it up in the US Census.

This is just proving my point that Divestment is all about worshipping White men. Why is dating White men seen as the number one issue for the “Divestment” Black women. Out of all the issues that could be discussed, that are way more important to the lives of Black women. All they want to talk about is dating White men?

————————————

“I honestly don’t think it has to do with our perceived dignity or about us “chasing white men” and somehow demeaning ourselves. ”

Then you are blind, or willfully ignorant.

August 21, 2009 at 11:07 am

Typo

Black men on Avg. Out earn Black women.

$36,068 Black Men & $31,009 Black Women

The 2007 median earnings of single-race black men and women, respectively, 15 and older who worked full time, year-round.

August 21, 2009 at 11:24 am

Keke – “Divestment is not about running to another master it is about recognizing your personal power and agency as a woman. As I said before, I don’t agree with all divestment principles but I am all for women taking care of their health and well being”

What principles do you not agree with?

qshukura says:

August 21, 2009 at 12:04 pm

JoeBmore, even if such is true; what does it have to do with your well-being? What does it take away from you, as a person, if one or some black women decide that IR dating is in their individual best interest? And so what, if you perceive that a black woman hates black men, in the larger picture of life, what does it take away from you personally. Another person can only do to you, no more or no less than what you allow. Why is this so much under your skin?

thewayoftheid says:

August 21, 2009 at 12:07 pm

This piece reads like a high school essay. Anybody who has paid attention to the last century would tell you that the MAIN reason why most black women are reluctant to call themselves feminists lies within the history of feminism itself, after being excluded and betrayed by the mothers of the movement. Thus, black women who have committed themselves to the cause refer to themselves as WOMANISTS. WOMANISTS do not see themselves as separate from their men and their communities, though they do acknowledge that oppression IS different for both groups. bell hooks has actually advanced the idea of womanist theory in her writings.

Also? PLEASE put the Beyonce down. Shaking ass and writing grade school lyrics does not a feminist make.

And Clutch? The next time you wanna tackle this topic, it might help if you get a writer who actually KNOWS the subject.

August 21, 2009 at 1:48 pm

Thank you Misfit, you posted some important information. It boggles me that any mention of black women and feminism revolves around men!! That is troubling to me.

There are a few ideas with divestment that suggests that black women should ignore and detach themselves some of the perils of the poorer neighborhoods where many black people still reside. Now I feel that ppl have a right to there opinion but at the same time, I cannot detach myself from the poorest of the poor communities since that is a part of my personal history. However, I do believe that there is only so much that I can do.

As I stated before, I do believe that it is important for black women to consider themselves, their personal well being and not put everyone else’s needs before their own. There are many litmus tests that are imposed on black women, we have been told that those tests define what it means to be a “real black woman”. I do not subscribe to that ideology. I am not going to keep myself down, broke, miserable and unhappy for folks that do not want to pull their own weight and I will not do all of the work for anyone. Having said that, I do believe in education and learning important tools that will enable me to navigate through the world successfully. I also believe in bringing that knowledge back to ppl who are less informed but with the condition that those individuals will put in work and make important/necessary changes to improve personal lifestyle.

As far as dating, I personally have never dated outside of my race. I have considered it as a possibility because I don’t believe that I MUST spend the rest of my life with a black man. I do strive to live a happy life and if that involves being with a man of another race, so be it.

@ thewayoftheid,

you certainly raised an important issue and very important facts. I would like to say that given the history in the country, black women are indeed the mothers of feminism. We just don’t always get the credit. When it comes to the discussion of men; I think that there are some distinctions.

There are some problems that black men face in this country and I am not blind to that. I am supportive in the advancement of black men. However, I still believe that there are issues solely related to black women. Those conversations should not revolve around black men. I do not male bash and I don’t think the answer is to leave black men in the dust. I believe that it is just fine for black women to focus on ourselves. As you alluded to in your comment, we have been constantly been told to “wait our turn”. If we don’t turn up the heat and make our voices be heard, our concerns will not be adequately addressed.

I do not expect black men or white women to do the walking for us, there are some things we must do for ourselves. If other groups would like to come aboard, that is fine, but they must be just as invested in our interests as we have been in their interests throughout the years.

August 21, 2009 at 1:51 pm

@ qshukura,

thank you for asking that question! i would like to read JoeBmore’s response

August 21, 2009 at 2:18 pm

Just to clarify-I was in no way suggesting that you believe that black women expect others to do our work or address our concerns. I thought you raised some good points and I just wanted to expound on my feelings of black women and the relationship to feminism and black men.

ok, i’m finished posting comments back to back!!! :-)

August 21, 2009 at 5:29 pm

@qshukura

I have sisters that is what it has to do with me. If you have a problem with that. Then don’t read what I have to post.

I have an opinion and I share it.

August 21, 2009 at 5:47 pm

I really don’t see what the issue is rebutting some of peoples Ideas. I stand 100% behind what I have to say. Why is it so difficult for others to do the same.

Let me extrapolate on my response. I have two sisters. One is a Lawyer, and the Other is in Law School. I am very protective of them, and I hate this constant defeatist attitude being perpetrated by a lot of Black women today. Its a constant passing of the buck which was never allowed in my household. That irks me to no end.

What gets me the most is this exploitation of Black women under the guise of Black Female Empowerment. Its a huge farce, and extremely self-serving. Black men have issues, Black women have issues, everybody has issues. We all acknowledge this. But when people try to talk about it. The only solution black women ever seem to come up with is “date a white guy”. Its beyond idiotic, and people wonder why the Black community is not progressing.

——————————————————-
“And so what, if you perceive that a black woman hates black men, in the larger picture of life, what does it take away from you personally. Another person can only do to you, no more or no less than what you allow. Why is this so much under your skin?”

I have always had an issue with dishonesty. Its a personal character flaw. Even you are barely admitting that some black women just hate Black men for no other reason than they are Black men. Some black women will invent 1001 reasons to hide the fact that they are for a lack of a better word. Bigots. Oh, they will call black men color struck, or self-hating. But pretend that black women could never be exactly the same way. That is what gets under my skin.

Why can’t some of these Black women just own up to their own internal hatred of Black people.

Trust me. I don’t take this beyond my work place. I can easily separate cyberspace from reality. But that is what bothers me.

August 21, 2009 at 6:20 pm

@JoeBmore: I have sisters that is what it has to do with me. If you have a problem with that. Then don’t read what I have to post.
I have an opinion and I share it.
_________________________________
1. I have a brother, and if my brother so decides to date a non-black woman, I doubt seriously, that my state of well-being will be in any sort of jeopardy.
2. I don’t have a problem with that; I did not know you had sisters. Your sisters are very blessed to have a brother, who is protective and concerned for their well being.
3. I’m reading your posts, as these were direct responses to my inquiry to you.
4. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, I am not trying to deny your first amendment right to express it.

M says:

August 26, 2009 at 4:04 am

Maybe it’s a subject for a different discussion, but it sort of saddens me that most of the comments are so heteronormative. What about queer black women who aren’t interested in men at all?

Sometimes it’s not about hating black men, but about not being personally interested in any men in the first place…

August 26, 2009 at 2:49 pm

@KeKe- I know right? Gotta love how a post dedicated to feminism has been completely dominated by an insecure man.

“Black man bashing” haha. Anytime a woman expresses a viewpoint that doesn’t properly stroke a Black man’s ego, she is “bashing”.

Whatev.

And the fact that by “dating out” one ASSUMES they MUST only be talking about WHITE MEN is another thing that boggles the mind. It’s not all about Black and White, there are a multitude of other races FYI. Might wanna keep that in mind…

It’s also disturbing that Joe has SUCH vitriol for women “dating out” but says of Black men (who do it in much larger numbers): “Black men basically do it without solicitation. There was no agenda or movement needed for it.”

Really???? The scores of athletes and other high income Black men who EXCLUSIVELY “date out” aren’t part of a movement to shun Black women as romantic interests? That doesn’t qualify as “an agenda”?

Ugh please. Joe your argument would hold more water if you condemned everyone equally for this “dating out” phenomenon and the promotion of it (because men DO promote it amongst themselves and follow through with it on a MUCH larger scale than Black women), rather than being solidly out to vilify any Black woman who tells others to explore universal dating options.

Also, I could care less what “earnings” figures you post that show Black men out earn Black women by a measly $5000. That isn’t a true measurement of social capital-education, professional advancement (which cannot always be measured by income alone) or other factors that influence one’s social capital.

Shala says:

September 5, 2009 at 11:59 am

Anybody but Beyonce! Janelle Monae, Erykah Badu, Lauryn Hill women who havent conformed to the conventional way of what a woman should look like, act or dress…